Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205
04/12/2006 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB166 | |
| SB170 | |
| SB278 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 166 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 170 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 278 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 170-BD/DEPT OF FISH & GAME POWERS & DUTIES
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 170 to be up for
consideration. He noted the new draft and asked for a motion.
SENATOR FRED DYSON moved to adopt Version C, Sponsor Substitute
to SB 170, as the working document. There was no objection and
it was so ordered.
3:52:07 PM at ease 3:56:03 PM
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS, sponsor, recapped the legislative intent
of SSSB 170, which is to increase revenue for the management of
fish and game. Fee and license increases will be adopted in
three stages beginning on January 1, 2007. The second increase
will occur on January 1, 2009 and the third increase will occur
on January 1, 2011.
The increases will bring resident and non-resident alien license
tags and fees in line with other premium hunting destinations
and a new trophy fee schedule for non-resident alien and non-
resident hunters is added, which is also consistent with other
premium hunting destinations.
SENATOR SEEKINS said that AS 16.05.130 provides that revenue
from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses, tags etc must be
allocated such that they directly benefit license purchasers. In
the past the interpretation of "directly benefit" was stretched,
but accountability is better now, he said.
SSSB 170 tightens diversion provisions to ensure that the fish
and game fund monies are only used for programs that enhance the
abundance, productivity, or harvest of fish or game populations
that are important for human consumption. It also requires that
the legislature receive a copy of the annual project report that
is also posted to the ADF&G website.
SSSB 170 clarifies that the commissioner shall manage fish and
game resources to achieve abundance for the use and benefit of
the people of the state consistent with the public interest and
to achieve maximum sustained yield. It further states that non-
game animals shall be managed for the benefit of the people of
the state.
Certain functions of the subsistence section are clarified. Data
will be collected on subsistence use of fish and game resources
and compliance with state fishing, hunting, and trapping license
requirements.
SENATOR SEEKINS explained that SSSB 170 allows the Board of Game
to implement intensive management decisions without additional
survey information. It would allow the use of community advisory
boards made up of local people familiar with the fish and game
populations to provide information demonstrating or confirming a
need for enhancement or control action.
SENATOR SEEKINS outlined bear control methods and means. The
intent is to provide a licensed hunter a higher probability to
harvest a bear in an area where a high bear population is
identified as a reason for depressed ungulate populations.
SSSB 170 adds a new subsection related to the sale of mounts and
trophies. Senator Seekins expressed the view that a regulated
in-state sale process of tagged mounts or trophies is a
reasonable program that would have no threat to the resource
whatsoever.
For resident hunters only - a non-resident may accompany a
resident only in areas of intensive management. The idea is to
put more hunters in the field. The limit is two persons each
year, both must pass the department's hunter safety course, and
the resident cannot receive any monetary benefit from the non-
resident. This option is canceled when the bear population is
back within the population objectives.
The military license fee is for military members and their non-
resident dependents only while stationed in Alaska. Senator
Seekins said the military and others in communities across the
state broadly support this provision.
4:03:53 PM
SENATOR ALBERT KOOKESH asked how he proposed to get hunter
education personnel into rural Alaska to teach the course.
SENATOR SEEKINS replied the course would be available in offices
or on the Internet.
SENATOR KOOKESH commented it seems odd that someone who grew up
hunting and fishing in rural Alaska would now be required to
take the hunter safety course before taking anyone in the field.
SENATOR SEEKINS agreed and elaborated on the purpose, which is
to enlist more knowledgeable people to hunt for bears in an area
that is under intensive management. That is the one interest he
is trying to protect. Although the intention is not to
jeopardize the guide requirement, he suggested that if there
were a court challenge that requirement would survive with
difficulty.
SENATOR STEDMAN commented he completed the hunter safety course
with his 11-year-old daughter. There was considerable hands-on
weapon handling so he wasn't sure how effective an on-line class
would be.
SENATOR SEEKINS acknowledged that is an obstacle, but a number
of approaches could be employed to handle hands-on
demonstrations.
4:09:58 PM
SENATOR ELTON referenced the letter to the president of the
Alaska Professional Hunters Association from Bill Horn with
Birch, Horton, Bittner and Cherot, and asked him to respond to
the conclusion. It says:
To preserve the constitutionality of Alaska's guide
requirement for non-resident hunters, we would
strongly counsel against authorizing any exception to
the guide requirement or a scheme in which special
residents act as de facto guides in a non-commercial
or quasi-commercial manner.
SENATOR SEEKINS disagreed that there is a constitutional issue.
It is a statutory issue unless there could be a challenge based
on the commerce clause. He reemphasized he is not trying to
challenge the guide requirement, but the alternative is to do
nothing and that isn't acceptable.
4:14:42 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said the assistant guides that he knows have
become experienced before taking anyone out brown bear hunting.
His perspective in Southeast is that he would be very cautious
around a weekend hunter who was hunting brown bear.
4:16:14 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS said first, he didn't think the areas in
Southeast would be under intensive management for bear control
and second, anyone who doesn't know what they're doing ought to
have a guide. The point is that there is a problem that needs to
be addressed. This is one approach to controlling bear
populations in areas where they are having an adverse effect on
the prey populations.
4:17:40 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN mentioned the increased cost for licenses and
commented he was surprised to see how few licenses are sold in
Western Alaska. He asked if there would be a mechanism to ensure
that more people buy proper licenses and tags.
4:18:41 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS responded he learned about the disparity between
the number of hunters and number of licenses sold a long time
ago. The fee schedule is open for discussion but an increase is
clearly needed.
4:20:43 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked what a resident would pay for a bear tag
and hunting license.
SENATOR SEEKINS replied in certain areas the tags are given
away.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he gets a brown bear tag every year so he
wouldn't have to give up the bear in the event he was forced to
shoot one.
SENATOR SEEKINS said a tag isn't required in the area he hunts
and he's allowed one bear a year.
4:22:54 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN noted that the bill redirects fish and game
expenditures somewhat and he questioned whether it wouldn't be
better to leave that up to a finance subcommittee or the
budgeting process.
4:23:27 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS replied, historically the money that goes into
the allowable and designated fish and game fund has been used at
the department's discretion. The sideboards are that the funds
are for the direct benefit of hunters and fishers and an annual
report is prepared to show how the funds were spent. Although
there were difficulties with that process in the past, he
prefers that approach. If abuse occurs in the future perhaps the
subcommittee process would be appropriate; at this point he
wouldn't suggest it.
4:27:01 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN referenced page 21, line 12 and asked about the
fee or license surcharge that would be used to acquire
easements, rights-of-way, and land to provide access to hunters
and fishers.
4:28:05 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS responded there are times when it is important
for the state to be able to acquire land for public access to
navigable streams, waters and state owned land. To do that it's
important that owners are paid fair market value for the access.
This creates a fund to accommodate that, but it mandates
nothing.
4:28:49 PM at ease 4:29:42 PM
McKIE CAMPBELL, Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game,
described the bill as large and complex and the department's
response is equally complex. ADF&G has no objection to some
parts; it agrees with the intent - not the language - of some
parts; it believes some parts may have counter effects to the
intended cure; and it strongly disagrees with some parts.
4:32:15 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL thanked the sponsor for including a
license increase and for highlighting the issue. When inflation
is taken into account an Alaska hunting and fishing license
costs less than half what it did at Statehood. However, he
believes that the fee schedule contained in the original bill is
more appropriate than the proposal in the committee substitute.
With regard to accountability he said the department owes it to
the legislature and those who purchase fishing and hunting
licenses to be totally accountable and transparent about how the
monies are spent. When Senator Seekins informed him of the
statutory requirement for an accounting, he quickly posted a
report to the department website. This year an updated summary
was published and detailed spreadsheets were furnished to the
Finance Committee and other interested legislators.
With regard to the question about a definition for "project," he
assured members that the response to the question is not an
accurate reflection of departmental policy. The definition in
the bill is reasonable but, he emphasized, with or without it
the department will continue to give a fully transparent
accounting of the amount and way that fish and game fund money
is spent.
4:35:15 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he has a number of concerns with the
bill but the main issue is on page 3, Section 4, subsection (c),
which says:
Notwithstanding other provisions of law, plan,
strategy, agreement, guideline, or similar document
that establishes or affects a policy for the
management of fish, game or aquatic resources that is
prepared by the department shall be submitted to the
Board of Fisheries, the Board of Game, or both, as
appropriate, for the board's approval before the
department implements the policy.
Currently the department makes policy, plans, strategies,
agreements, and guidelines every single day so that requirement
is very problematic for two reasons. First it would likely
require a fulltime board, but the fiscal note assumed that the
current volunteer board would suffice. Second, any action that
didn't go through the board would open the department to legal
challenge. He understands the motivation, but he'd like to
continue working with the sponsor.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he is also concerned about limiting
the transfer of money between projects, but there again he
understands the motivation.
4:39:20 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL expressed agreement with much that was in
the PowerPoint but the devil is in the details as far the
language is concerned. For example the department supports the
provision about selling trophies, but would adamantly oppose
anything that would encourage poaching for the sale of game meat
or parts.
4:40:24 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked if the Department of Law (DOL) provided
guidance so that ADF&G attorneys could address the implications
of the different sections in the bill.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said yes and based on that advice they
prepared a sectional analysis. They provided that information to
Senator Seekins last year and no one else. He said he did not
have a revised sectional reflecting the new CS.
SENATOR ELTON commented that the committee would need to review
the DOL document before making a decision.
CHAIR WAGONER asked Commissioner Campbell to provide the
committee with a revised sectional.
4:43:29 PM
SENATOR DYSON recapped what the sponsor was trying to do and
asked if there was a better way.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied the bill is complex and it does
many things so the department would like to continue to work
with the sponsor to offer opportunities and language to reduce
the chance for unintended consequences.
4:45:27 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN observed that the bill is very complex and he
would hold his questions until the updated sectional was
available.
4:45:57 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS commented subsection (c) on page 3 was
precipitated because there are agreements that affect management
policy in the state that neither the Board of Game nor the
legislature knows about on a formal basis. He used the State
Wildlife Grant Project as an example and said the question in
that instance was whether the document committed particular
management processes and actions without any there having been
any external review. SSSB 170 just asks for the light of day so
that the people who are charged with that fiduciary management
responsibility are actually involved.
4:48:00 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL highlighted his concern using the halibut
charter issue. At a recent North Pacific Management Council
meeting the issue of whether or not skippers and crew should be
able to retain fish was hotly contested. On behalf of the State
of Alaska he made the policy decision to enforce no retention
for skippers and crew in Southeast and to watch Southcentral
closely. As such he was able to realize a goal that the sponsor
also supported. Without the ability to make the policy call, the
goal would not have been realized for at least another 30 days.
He reiterated his commitment to transparency and full
disclosure.
4:50:43 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked what would have happened if the language in
subsection (c) had been law 6 months ago when there was a
challenge to the predator control program that was based on
procedural issues. He suggested the language creates questions
that could potentially affect the predator control policy.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied it's not the intent but he is very
concerned that the section could be used to attack any
department action that didn't have board blessing. Whether or
not it would have affected the predator control policy he
couldn't say, but Section 15(e)(1) on page 9 certainly could
have an affect. It contains language about consumptive use of
the big game prey population as a preferred use. The new
language is problematic because there are dramatically different
conclusions from who is a reliable, reasonable or knowledgeable
person. He suggested that with that language the department
would be in court all the time even though that is not the
intent.
CHAIR WAGONER announced he would hold SB 170.
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